Dragon's Crown |OT| -- NOW AVAILABLE! Hands-On Impressions Inside!

Interesting that the discussion of customization and options stems from a conversation regarding Dragon's Crown. If a player doesn't like the large breasts of the Sorceress then they can simply choose another character. The Elf is a perfect substitute as she's realistically proportioned and fully clothed.

I think customizing characters is expected in most open world RPGs such as Skyrim/Fallout, but the idea of every game having it is ridiculous and silly. I suppose my opinion stems from my personal experience of never really caring what the main protagonist was. I was never disconnected while playing The Walking Dead because Lee was black and I'm not. I enjoyed Tomb Raider immensely, although I'm not a woman. I'm also not a blue hedgehog, but I have a lot of fun with Sonic... well, used to, too bad that series hasn't released a good game in a while but that's not the point.

I would like to see more diversity though, if for no other reason then it's simply boring having so many main characters look and act alike.  

IndianaPwns39

Well said.  I agree that it's not practical to have custom characters in every game, particularly when the story requires a specific type of character, but there's no reason why a lot more games couldn't have them, other than to cut development costs at the expense of the gaming experience.  You were right on when you said it's simply boring having so many main characters look and act alike.

[QUOTE="capaho"]

It is not my intention to insult you, I hope you come to realize that at some point in the manner in which I have responded to you.  

 

I'm not really into name calling and I prefer to stick to the issues without personalizing it too much, although I don't hesitate to provide a measured response when I'm being unfairly or inappropriately attacked over mere disagreement.

 

Well, I guess the reason why jiggling boobs are so popular with so many gamers is because there are so many gamers who are boobs.

Grammaton-Cleric

Truly, hypocrite isn't an expansive enough term to encompass your inanity.

You're too easy, I just threw that out there to test the waters, which fortunately are never very deep here.  I wanted to see how many of those would be offended by it who have been complaining about those who are easily offended.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you were the first to take the bait.  Thanks for demonstrating an important point in this discussion.

You're too easy, I just threw that out there to test the waters, which fortunately are never very deep here.  I wanted to see how many of those would be offended by it who have been complaining about those who are easily offended.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you were the first to take the bait.  Thanks for demonstrating an important point in this discussion.

capaho

Oh that was so incredibly clever and much more relevant to the discussion than addressing any number of cogent points made in this thread.

Keep playing coy because clearly, that's the full measure of your skill set.

[QUOTE="UpInFlames"]

And for good reason. This works in RPG's or other games which only use the main character as an empty vessel to be boarded and occupied by the player himself. If all games did this, we would be robbed of some really great main characters. That's why I always scoffed at such an idea when it was suggested for a Grand Theft Auto game, for example. There is no one solution for everything. The only thing developers should do is follow their vision. Then it's up to the public to determine whether we like it or not.

Grammaton-Cleric

I agree with you entirely from a philosophical standpoint. I'm just at a point where I'd endorse the notion of giving people the choice merely to shut down these laborious and mind-numbing bouts of political correctness because we live in an era where people are clearly offended by everything and anything.  

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

Interesting that the discussion of customization and options stems from a conversation regarding Dragon's Crown. If a player doesn't like the large breasts of the Sorceress then they can simply choose another character. The Elf is a perfect substitute as she's realistically proportioned and fully clothed.

I think customizing characters is expected in most open world RPGs such as Skyrim/Fallout, but the idea of every game having it is ridiculous and silly. I suppose my opinion stems from my personal experience of never really caring what the main protagonist was. I was never disconnected while playing The Walking Dead because Lee was black and I'm not. I enjoyed Tomb Raider immensely, although I'm not a woman. I'm also not a blue hedgehog, but I have a lot of fun with Sonic... well, used to, too bad that series hasn't released a good game in a while but that's not the point.

I would like to see more diversity though, if for no other reason then it's simply boring having so many main characters look and act alike.  

capaho

Well said.  I agree that it's not practical to have custom characters in every game, particularly when the story requires a specific type of character, but there's no reason why a lot more games couldn't have them, other than to cut development costs at the expense of the gaming experience.  You were right on when you said it's simply boring having so many main characters look and act alike.

I think the lack of diversity and options comes from developers that are afraid of failure. While this is understandable, it usually seems like it's based in cowardice rather than fact.

Recently, someone at Epic Games said that a female protagonist in Gears wouldn't work well for gamers and I have to ask why not even try? While I understand his point and worry, how are we to expand if we continue to cater to the masses who are afraid of change? I was also a bit curious to that statement considering there was absolutely no backlash in the community when players controlled Anya.

I guess I'll spoiler tag this for those that never played Gears 3 and want to...

[spoiler] Dom was my character in Gears of War. I've played through both the first and second game numerous times with a few different people, and I was always second player. I didn't associate with Marcus because I played as him once. It was Dom. Given the game's popularity with co-op, I doubt I'm alone in this. When Dom dies in Gears of War 3, second player ends the game playing as Anya. Her inclusion to the story didn't pull me away, I didn't pout because I wasn't playing a big muscley dude anymore, it just felt right to the story. Anya was there since the beginning, she took up a gun to fight along her friends, and that's what happened. The community was never in an uproar about this, people were fine with it. [/spoiler]

I just think AAA games are afraid of risks for no reason. Yeah, there's always going to be that one douche that says something racist or sexist but why are we catering to him? 

Well, I guess the reason why jiggling boobs are so popular with so many gamers is because there are so many gamers who are boobs.

capaho

I already said that I personally don't like the design, it's right there on the first page of the thread. Nice try, though.

The problem with political correctness is that it serves as an automated response to anything not deemed acceptable within the parameters of a banal blend of homogenous ideas and notions that aim to dictate acceptable conduct and expression. Like most ideologies, there is an altruistic streak running through the core but political correctness has also become dogmatic and turgid, with those who espouse it numbly rattling off their measured outrage with all the emotional resonance of a flowchart.

Perhaps the most glaring flaw of contemporary political correctness is that it is unavoidably reductionist in nature, distilling matters that are inherently complex in terms of social, cultural and artistic dimensions into simplistic, monochromatic notions of morality that do a great disservice to society and intellectualism as a whole. The PC-minded person has been trained, at an almost Pavlovian level, to respond to certain images and words and respond accordingly, often employing terminology they have been conditioned to utilize but don't fully understand.

This most recent example of overreaction from the artist at Gearbox further demonstrates my point. Her opening preface was valid and would have served to facilitate an intelligent and meaningful deliberation on this medium but she undermines her own point by dovetailing into a PC-addled diatribe that strips her argument of rationality. Her zealous, conditioned outrage short-circuits her more nuanced and deliberate logic, allowing people to flatly dismiss her as a kook despite having made some strong initial arguments.

Political correctness is an intellectual void and people need to take a deeper look at these issues before feigning outrage and spewing derision.   

I agree with you entirely from a philosophical standpoint. I'm just at a point where I'd endorse the notion of giving people the choice merely to shut down these laborious and mind-numbing bouts of political correctness because we live in an era where people are clearly offended by everything and anything.  

Grammaton-Cleric

It's definitely a problem of a society we live in. I don't know if it's simply about people not having real problems or they simply cannot identify real issues that plague this world, so they take it upon themselves to get bent out of shape over the silliest things. Whatever it is, let them whine.

We just had a short discussion about Bayonetta recently and I told you just how much I hated pretty much all artistic/design decisions Platinum went with. And I will shit on that game as long as I have any breath in me. That is my right. But the thing is that I perfectly understand that Platinum also has the right to make their game however they see fit. It's not for me, I'll play something else. Problem solved.

[QUOTE="capaho"]

Well, I guess the reason why jiggling boobs are so popular with so many gamers is because there are so many gamers who are boobs.

UpInFlames

I already said that I personally don't like the design, it's right there on the first page of the thread. Nice try, though.

But didn't you catch that he was testing the waters? Because, you know, he's so much smarter than everyone else.

But didn't you catch that he was testing the waters? Because, you know, he's so much smarter than everyone else.Grammaton-Cleric

No.

I think the lack of diversity and options comes from developers that are afraid of failure. While this is understandable, it usually seems like it's based in cowardice rather than fact.

Recently, someone at Epic Games said that a female protagonist in Gears wouldn't work well for gamers and I have to ask why not even try? While I understand his point and worry, how are we to expand if we continue to cater to the masses who are afraid of change? I was also a bit curious to that statement considering there was absolutely no backlash in the community when players controlled Anya.

I guess I'll spoiler tag this for those that never played Gears 3 and want to...

[spoiler] Dom was my character in Gears of War. I've played through both the first and second game numerous times with a few different people, and I was always second player. I didn't associate with Marcus because I played as him once. It was Dom. Given the game's popularity with co-op, I doubt I'm alone in this. When Dom dies in Gears of War 3, second player ends the game playing as Anya. Her inclusion to the story didn't pull me away, I didn't pout because I wasn't playing a big muscley dude anymore, it just felt right to the story. Anya was there since the beginning, she took up a gun to fight along her friends, and that's what happened. The community was never in an uproar about this, people were fine with it. [/spoiler]

I just think AAA games are afraid of risks for no reason. Yeah, there's always going to be that one douche that says something racist or sexist but why are we catering to him? 

 

IndianaPwns39

Once again, I think you're right on with that one. The majority of developers are worried about alienating the target demographic, which I suppose is not an unfounded concern given the amount of insensitivity and intolerance evident in this thread. Then again, I suppose the narrow-mindedness in game design may inhibit a broader appeal of games, which could actually be a factor in the steady decline in game sales over the past few years. If the game developers were really tuned into their market I would expect sales to be increasing year after year. The entertainment industry was very slow to address issues of diversity out of fear of a backlash only to discover that a majority of people accepted it. Hopefully the gaming industry will catch up with the rest of the culture. capaho

The slow decline in game sales can be attributed to the apparent same-ness of a lot of today's games in addition to the prolonged console cycle. If diversity really was the issue, I think we'd know. As it stands, the apathy toward these issues is evidence that such things don't matter to most of the market. We're a vocal minority, unfortunately.

Just one more thing I'd like to add: Clearly the developer thought the design for the sorceress was ok.  It wasn't 'just' an artistic expression, it was also considered to be sound from a business perspective.  The fact that we're spent over 30 pages debating this just proves the developer right.  Regardless of people being offended or not, the character design created a higher public awareness.  It did so in forums, and it will do so in stores as well.

I said that a creative branch shouldn't be held back by what people find offensive, but really, how much do mainstream on-disk console releases these days have to do with creativity?  Sure, Vanillaware's games always have a destinct artstyle, but they basically release samey games over and over (can't say I played them, but from an artstyle point of view, they all look alike).  One could argue how this is creative freedom, and as such, the argument towards the design for the sorceress being ok because it's an artistic expression is somewhat undermined.

Just one more thing I'd like to add: Clearly the developer thought the design for the sorceress was ok.  It wasn't 'just' an artistic expression, it was also considered to be sound from a business perspective.  The fact that we're spent over 30 pages debating this just proves the developer right.  Regardless of people being offended or not, the character design created a higher public awareness.  It did so in forums, and it will do so in stores as well.

I said that a creative branch shouldn't be held back by what people find offensive, but really, how much do mainstream on-disk console releases these days have to do with creativity?  Sure, Vanillaware's games always have a destinct artstyle, but they basically release samey games over and over (can't say I played them, but from an artstyle point of view, they all look alike).  One could argue how this is creative freedom, and as such, the argument towards the design for the sorceress being ok because it's an artistic expression is somewhat undermined.

SupremeAC

I don't think this matters. It doesn't necessarily have to be about artistic integrity, an artist can intentionally create something provocative to generate interest and cause controversy. That doesn't diminish anything. It still remains their prerogative to which they have full right.

As is the case with the vast majority of art, games are still a commercial product. Whether it's high art or trash art is up for debate, but that doesn't really change what we're talking about here - freedom of expression.

By the way, you really need to change that sig. :P

The slow decline in game sales can be attributed to the apparent same-ness of a lot of today's games in addition to the prolonged console cycle. If diversity really was the issue, I think we'd know. As it stands, the apathy toward these issues is evidence that such things don't matter to most of the market. We're a vocal minority, unfortunately.

c_rake

[QUOTE="SupremeAC"]

Just one more thing I'd like to add: Clearly the developer thought the design for the sorceress was ok.  It wasn't 'just' an artistic expression, it was also considered to be sound from a business perspective.  The fact that we're spent over 30 pages debating this just proves the developer right.  Regardless of people being offended or not, the character design created a higher public awareness.  It did so in forums, and it will do so in stores as well.

I said that a creative branch shouldn't be held back by what people find offensive, but really, how much do mainstream on-disk console releases these days have to do with creativity?  Sure, Vanillaware's games always have a destinct artstyle, but they basically release samey games over and over (can't say I played them, but from an artstyle point of view, they all look alike).  One could argue how this is creative freedom, and as such, the argument towards the design for the sorceress being ok because it's an artistic expression is somewhat undermined.

UpInFlames

I don't think this matters. It doesn't necessarily have to be about artistic integrity, an artist can intentionally create something provocative to generate interest and cause controversy. That doesn't diminish anything. It still remains their prerogative to which they have full right.

As is the case with the vast majority of art, games are still a commercial product. Whether it's high art or trash art is up for debate, but that doesn't really change what we're talking about here - freedom of expression.

By the way, you really need to change that sig. :P 

I was just saying that I find stuff like this harder to defend when you consider that for all it's worth, the decision for those ludicurous boobs might have been made by some men in suits, rather then an artist. To me it does make a difference if we are talking about artistic integrity or just the freedom of expression. Both deserve all the breathing space they need, but I find the first a lot easier to defend. Freedom of expression ends there where you start harming or insulting other people. Artistic integrity can still go that bit farther.

I was just saying that I find stuff like this harder to defend when you consider that for all it's worth, the decision for those ludicurous boobs might have been made by some men in suits, rather then an artist. To me it does make a difference if we are talking about artistic integrity or just the freedom of expression. Both deserve all the breathing space they need, but I find the first a lot easier to defend. Freedom of expression ends there where you start harming or insulting other people. Artistic integrity can still go that bit farther.SupremeAC

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From Mickey Mouse to Jesus, This Dragons Crown Trailer is Full of Epic Homages

Posted onMarch 25, 2013byRichmond

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Watching the latest Dragons Crown trailer I was delighted by the density of historical and pop cultural references they managed to sprinkle into every shot. Dragons Crown is the latest game from Vanillaware, best known for Odin Sphere and Oboro Muramasa. Vanillaware is staffed by many ex-Capcom employees who worked on some of the best arcade games from back in the day, including Capcoms Dungeons and Dragons: Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara (my favorite beat-em-up next to Capcoms Aliens vs Predator). Dragons Crown is very much a spiritual successor to these games, but thats just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the vast array of influences at work in this title. Heres the trailer.

Now lets go through shot by shot

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Walt Disney Presents

The trailer opens up with a glowing fairy flying by the Atlus logo. This is an homage to the iconic Disney introduction where Tinkerbell flies by and sprinkles pixie dust on the Disney logo. This is the first of many Disney tributes to follow.

I believe this animation was originally made for Disneys first regular TV series, Disneyland which premiered in 1954 (predating the unveiling of the theme park of the same name which opened in 1955).

Disney has been using new variations on this animation ever since.

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The Landscapes of Pieter Bruegel

Next up the Vanillaware Logo is overlaid on top of a backdrop that recalls the landscapes of Flemish Renaissance painter, Pieter Bruegel.  The castle reminded me of Bruegels famous depictions of the Tower of Babel, which have provided inspiration to countless artists through the years.  Its not a direct analog to Bruegels Babel, however there is another castle at the very end of the trailer that is.

A similar spiraling tower also appears in Capcoms Dungeons and Dragons: Shadow Over Mystara, a game which George Kamitani, director of Dragons Crown worked on.

While The Tower of Babel is very epic in scope, much of Bruegels work was very warm and focused on the mundane aspects of peasant life which was very unusual for a European painter of his time. This tendency was carried on by his eldest son who also became an accomplished painter. The work of the Bruegels provide a great launch pad for any artist aspiring to depict a medieval village. Much of Vanillawares background art is reminiscent of the paintings of the Bruegels.

Vanillaware art is always full of subtle authentic details

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Greek Statuary

As the trailer continues the viewer is shown a dark corridor lined with Greek style statues of women. One of the figures recalls the statue of a wounded Amazon at The Met in New York.

The trailer continues with panning shots of more statues with strong Greek features.

Greek and Roman statues tend to have very strong nose bridges that go straight into the forehead

The shots of the crumbling corridor full of Greek style statues implies that parts of the game will involve exploring the ruins of even older civilizations.  Intriguing!

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Renaissance Portraits of the Rich and Famous

The trailer continues with a shot of a wealthy couple opulently dressed in Renaissance style garb.  Each of them are brandishing a blue diamond, which could be an indication of royalty. The woman is holding a book, indicating a high level of education and refinement for the period. They look to be inside a castle overlooking a beautiful city. I am guessing that they will be your patrons on an important quest.

A good picture is worth a thousand words. There isnt a single arbitrary design decision in this whole image; everything is in place to convey the emotional state, personality, culture, social status and worldliness of the subjects.

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Medieval Knights and Longswords

Next up is one of my favorite images from the trailer, a ghostly knight brandishing a scroll.

Note: The Bottom Right photo belongs to Holly Hayes. Source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sacred_destinations/2076001419/sizes/o/in/photostream/

He has been run through with a longsword wrapped in parchment with the message: HONESTA MORS TURPI VITA POTIOR. Translated from Latin, this means: An Honorable Death Is Better Than A Vile Life. His cape pin has a spade insignia (the strongest suite) and his helmet has a crown, both indicating royalty. As with almost everything in Dragons Crown, the ghostly knights proportions are hyper stylized, but the execution and details are very authentic. The style of longsword depicted here was first developed in England in the 1300s and primarily used by knights during the early days of the 100 Years War.  By the 1500s it had fallen out of use on the battlefield, but continued to be popular as a weapon of sport and knightly duels. Perhaps this is the spirit of a great knight or even a king felled during a time of war.

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Angels, Pomegranates and The Sacred Heart of Jesus

The supernatural imagery continues with a putto (a babyish angel or Cupid often mistakenly referred to as a cherub in modern times) holding a heart descending upon a desiccated corpse laid upon an altar draped in a funerary shroud.

The supine figure strongly recalls the beautiful Rococo sculpture The Veiled Christ by Giuseppe Sanmartino after a design by Antonio Corradini (who was initially commissioned for the piece but did not live to see its completion). This is one of the great works of western art and depicts the lifeless body of Jesus detailed with incredible sensitivity. The angel is holding a heart, perhaps recalling the Sacred Heart of Jesus, a Catholic devotion that originated in the middle ages.  My friend and scholar Melvin originally mistook the heart for a pomegranate, a Christian symbol of resurrection. There are many classical paintings of The Christ Child holding pomegranates, symbolizing his future resurrection and the promise of eternal life.  Im willing to bet that this imagery is not lost on the folks at Vanillaware and this image will somehow tie into how you resurrect your characters in Dragons Crown should they die.

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Franciscan Friars

Continuing with the Christian imagery, the next character introduced is a man who is dressed very similarly to a Franciscan Friar, an order of monks founded in the 13th century.  He looks to be holding a bible and has a statue of a figure that strongly resembles the Virgin Mary tied around his neck.

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The Crusades

The Christian references continue with the next character, a hulking knight dressed like a medieval Christian Crusader. His chest is emblazoned with a lion in the rampant pose, the most aggressive posture of the traditional European heraldry signs. I wonder if he was based off of the knight at the end of Indiana Jones And The Last Crusade? Their faces are very similar.

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Conan The Barbarian

If you love Fantasy books and movies, then this next character needs no introduction. This mountain of a man is the spitting image of Arnold Schwarzenegger in his breakout role as Conan The Barbarian!

Trivia: the original script for the film Conan The Barbarian had Conan fighting mutant animal human hybrids, not unlike the classic pig-faced orcs lying defeated in the background of this image.

Conan the Barbarian put Arnold on the map and kicked off the Sword and Sorcery craze of the 80s leaving an incredibly deep impression on the young medium of videogames.  The first Conan film is legitimately great. Penned and directed by John Milius (who also wrote the all time great film Apocalypse Now), it is one of the most iconic films out thereone of my absolute favorites. It was based on a series of short stories by Robert E Howard.  The books are awesome and I enthusiastically recommend them to any fan of Fantasy or Literature (with a capital L!) in general.  They may surprise you.  Conan is one of the smartest characters Ive ever encountered in fiction.

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Frazetta Style Sorceress

You cant have Swords and Sorcery without a buxom sorceress! This next character looks very much like a classic Frank Frazetta vixen.

She is dressed very similarly to Princess Teegra from the 1983 film, Fire and Ice, a collaboration between Frank Frazetta and Ralph Bakshi, a luminary of alternative American animation. Her pose and demeanor are much more fierce though, and recall Frazettas paintings of femme fatale sorceresses.

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Mickey Mouse!

This is flat out one of my favorite homages in anything Ive ever seen.  This enthusiastic little fellow is a tribute to Mickey Mouse from the Sorcerers Apprentice segment of Disneys Fantasia.

Theyre both wearing the same iconic, pointy wizards cap and the warmly lit stairwell in the back is an especially nice touch.

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Nike of Samothrace

Next were treated to another great icon of Western Art, The Nike of Samothrace (also called The Winged Victory).

Its speculated that this statue was originally made to commemorate a great naval victory.

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The Films of Ray Harryhausen

The trailer continues with a collage of monsters straight out of the films of Ray Harryhausen, a titan in the world of special effects.  As a child, Harryhausen saw King Kong (1933) and instantly fell in love with the model animation techniques used to bring its fantastic creatures to life.  From that point on, Harryhausen dedicated his life to creating stop motion films that brought creatures and worlds only that only previously existed in imagination into the material world of film.

Harryhausen was very inspired by the burgeoning field of Science Fiction literature and was actually a close lifelong friend of another cultural titan, Ray Bradbury.  Try to imagine a time when the terms Visual Effects, Stop Motion and Sci-Fi where not part of the vernacular. The work of Ray Harryhausen was crucial in bringing those concepts to a wide audience. From the 1940s through the 1990s Ray Harryhausen was responsible for some of the most fantastic and iconic creatures ever to grace a silver screen. These monsters left an indelible mark on film and surely inspired generations of game artists and developers as well.  Mr Harryhausen, Vanillaware salutes you!

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Skeleton Warriors

First up is that most humble of videogame foes, the killer skeleton.  Its absolutely ubiquitous today, but in 1958 when The 7th Voyage of Sinbad hit theaters in the US it was a totally novel concept.

Sinbad would go on to become a sleeper hit (its score by famous Hitchcock collaborator, Bernard Herman, is considered one of the best in film history and also undoubtedly influenced many early videogame sound tracks), but the skeleton warrior would make a huge splash several years later when it reappeared (and multiplied!) in Jason and the Argonauts (1963), one of Harryhausens more critically and commercially successful films and his personal favorite of the bunch.

The scene where Jason fights the group of skeletons, with its intricate, near seamless interaction of live action and animation elements, is considered a defining moment in the history of VFX.

(this clip does not contain the original audio track, but it sure is cool)

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Talos, the Bronze Giant

The next Harryhausen creature to appear is Talos, a giant animated bronze statue that also appears in Jason and the Argonauts.

In Greek mythology, Talos was a giant man made out of bronze who was created by Zeus to protect Europa, the first Queen of Crete (and his lover who he had stolen away while disguised as a white bull). Europe takes its name after her.

Harryhausens version of Talos was inspired by classical depictions of the Colossus of Rhodes, one of the 7 Wonders of the Ancient World.

Engraving by Marten van Heemskerck (1498-1574)

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Medussa

Medussa is another iconic monster that Ray Harryhausen helped to define in the global consciousness with his 1981 film Clash of the Titans.

In Greek mythology, Medussa was a Gorgon, a monstrous female creature often depicted with sharp fangs and snakes for hair who could turn men to stone with her fierce gaze.

The earliest depictions of gorgons show them as women with scary faces, often adorning temples in order to protect them from harm.

In AD 8, the Roman poet Ovid completed the epic, The Metamorphosis, which introduced the idea that Medusa had once been an incredibly beautiful maiden before being cursed and transformed into a horrible monster.  However artists had already been depicting Medusa with a classically beautiful face as early as the 4th or 5th Century BC.

The Medusa Rondanini. This is a roman copy of a Greek statue dating from either the 4th of 5th century that is considered to be the oldest known "beautiful gorgoneion."

By the Renaissance onward this became the new norm for Medusa.

Ray Harryhausen returned Medusa to her roots depicting her as grotesque monster. As far as I know, it was Ray Harryhausen who first designed her with the lower body of a snake and other heightened reptilian features such as scaly skin and a rattler. Vanillaware plays off of this convention and even adds a striped pattern to her scales similar to that of a timber rattlesnake, though theyve chosen to maintain the attractive face preferred by most classical painters.

The monsters called out in this trailer represent just a small fraction of Ray Harryhausens oeuvre.  Ray Harryhausen is one of the most important fantasy artists of the last century and his visual legacy lives on in countless films and videogames. To learn more about Ray Harryhausen please visit his official website here:

http://www.rayharryhausen.com/index.php

Thats all for today, but theres still much to cover in this trailer.  Keep your eyes peeled on for more updates from Art-Eater on Facebook and Twitter as we look deeper into the world of Dragons Crown.  Thanks for reading!

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Full credit goes to ArtEater.Com for the last two posts. Read THEM and see if you can REALLY dismiss George Kamitani's work as immature, sexist and boob-centric!

Not going to lie, those last two posts got me more interested in the game more than that massive rack on the witch ever did.

[QUOTE="HipHopBeats"]

If anything, I'm more offended by trailers like this which label all male gamers as mindless sexbots. As ridiculous as Dragon's Crown artwrok is, at least it's just 'here, look at some oversized boobs' vs. buy this game because you're a zombie idiot.

Lucky_Krystal

Holy crap that was painful to watch. For several reasons  :shock:

Anyways, has anyone posted this yet? The artist explains his reason for drawing the characters like he did. I think it kind of sucks that his art has caused such a huge uproar for all the wrong reasons. Sure, some of his drawings may be a bit over the top and highly sexual, but the man does some beautiful artwork.

Lol, people seem to be offended of any and everything nowadays rwady to twist any response into something offensive. I don't kow the man to make a call on him being homophbic but obviously he meant that drawing as a light hearted joke that was taken the wrong way. Seems to me like more people are heterophobic than anything.

Not going to lie, those last two posts got me more interested in the game more than that massive rack on the witch ever did.

DJ-Lafleur

Lol, people seem to be offended of any and everything nowadays rwady to twist any response into something offensive. I don't kow the man to make a call on him being homophbic but obviously he meant that drawing as a light hearted joke that was taken the wrong way. Seems to me like more people are heterophobic than anything.

HipHopBeats

Is it possible to be heterophobic in a heterosexual world that has also been a hobophobic world for most of its history?

That's pretty cool about the Conan part

Full credit goes to ArtEater.Com for the last two posts. Read THEM and see if you can REALLY dismiss George Kamitani's work as immature, sexist and boob-centric!

Phantom_Leo

Alright, Another question:

Who is the more stereotypical and negative portrayal of a woman in a game?

--or--

Alright, Another question:

Who is the more stereotypical and negative portrayal of a woman in a game?

Phantom_Leo

What difference does it make?  What possessed you to revive this thread?

What possessed me to "revive" my own thread... with a question relevant to the topic... after a single day's inactivity... with it still sitting on the front page of the forum...?

...Really?

There may be things in here that you might be ashamed of reading, but I'd like the discussion to continue.

Now you're just trying too hard.Buckhannah

If people are offended by such a fictious character, then they shouldn't be playing games at all. Period.

What possessed me to "revive" my own thread... with a question relevant to the topic... after a single day's inactivity... with it still sitting on the front page of the forum...?

...Really?

There may be things in here that you might be ashamed of reading, but I'd like the discussion to continue.

Phantom_Leo

How dare you! :P

On another note, Princess Teegra is hot. :D

Alright, Another question:

Who is the more stereotypical and negative portrayal of a woman in a game?

--or--

Phantom_Leo

___________________

Blonde hair, blue eyes and blank stare whose apparent occupation ISN'T governing her Kingdom, but baking cakes for her plumber boyfriend and getting captured again and again and again...

--OR--

Kick-ass Sorceress capable of Shooting Fireballs from her wand, killing skeletons and Dragons **that would swallow Bowser in one gulp, no less** and raising the dead to fight as she commands to be one of the ACTIVE, FIGHTING Heroes of Dragon's Crown...

___________________

One is an insult to the entire women's liberation movement and the other is the center of controvery because of her boobies... How is this in any way correct? I honestly believe Peach is more offensive than The Sorceress!

[spoiler] ...and she is flat as a board.  :twisted:  :lol: [/spoiler]

Wait until they get a load of the Amazon in action!

:o

What possessed me to "revive" my own thread... with a question relevant to the topic... after a single day's inactivity... with it still sitting on the front page of the forum...?

...Really?

There may be things in here that you might be ashamed of reading, but I'd like the discussion to continue.

Phantom_Leo

You misunderstood my comments.  I asked what difference it made in reference to the images because they're both sexist given the context.  It would have been more meaningful to ask which image is more offensive.

I asked what possessed you to revive the thread because it merely seems rather voyeuristic at this point.  You lauded Jim Sterling's video presentation calling for reasoned dialog rather than argument, but that hasn't happened here.  Those of us who criticize the sexism and insensitivity of the gaming world are merely attacked for expressing our views.  If you really want meaningful dialog regarding sexism in video games, you should find a forum dealing with women's issues and post the images there for comment.  Asking a group of sexists to comment on sexism seems rather pointless.

I understand you want the images to be appreciated for their artistic value and I have no problem with that.  The problem is that the current state of the gaming world, and this forum in particular, only invites rancor over these issues, and there has been very little meaningful discussion in this thread relevant to resolving the controversies surrounding such images.  All this thread has accomplished thus far is to reinforce negative stereotypes and validate the complaints against such imagery.

Alright, Another question:

Who is the more stereotypical and negative portrayal of a woman in a game?

[Peach vs. Sorceress]

Phantom_Leo

Maybe if this debate happened several years ago, sure, but Princess Peach has been shown to be fully capable of taking care of herself and the roles have been reversed in which Peach saved Mario, although it was in a spin off title. I actually wish Nintendo would do this for Zelda, in which we get a game where you play as Zelda and perhaps save Link (or just drop Link altogether and focus on how interesting a character Zelda is)

Either way, I don't find it negative, especially given the nature of the games. If we're going to ask questions or accuse a game of sexism, perhaps a better example would be Dante's Inferno. The game, while obviously a far cry from the poem it was "based" on, not only misses the entire point of Beatrice by making her a simple damsel in distress, but also rips off her clothes and has her succumb to Satan's will for basically no reason. She was a complete misrepresentation of her initial character, and the argument that she saved Dante in the epic poem is completely tossed aside for you rescuing a nearly naked gal from the most evil of monsters. 

I actually wish Nintendo would do this for Zelda, in which we get a game where you play as Zelda and perhaps save Link (or just drop Link altogether and focus on how interesting a character Zelda is)IndianaPwns39

I think Zelda showed off she isn't to be taken lightly in enough titles. OoT, WW, SS,... She's far past being just a damsel in distress. SupremeAC

Definitely.

I still want to see a spin off title where we'd play as her though.

In fact I'd like to see a lot of franchises with similar characters offer a new protagonist while maintaining the core gameplay. They don't all have to be female, mind you, just saying I wouldn't say no to Zelda leading a Zelda game or a Princess of Persia.

Again, you are trying way too damn hard, man.Buckhannah

You might be more convincing as a mind reader if you put yours to good use.

Maybe if this debate happened several years ago, sure, but Princess Peach has been shown to be fully capable of taking care of herself and the roles have been reversed in which Peach saved Mario, although it was in a spin off title. IndianaPwns39

Please, please tell me you aren't referring to Super Princess Peach. Her "powers" in that game were using her EMOTIONS to solve puzzles. She would CRY to produce water. Get ANGRY to burn stuff. It was actually pretty embarassing!

Didn't exactly advance the image of a STRONG, female Heroine!  :P

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

Maybe if this debate happened several years ago, sure, but Princess Peach has been shown to be fully capable of taking care of herself and the roles have been reversed in which Peach saved Mario, although it was in a spin off title. Phantom_Leo

Please, please tell me you aren't referring to Super Princess Peach. Her "powers" in that game were using her EMOTIONS to solve puzzles. She would CRY to produce water. Get ANGRY to burn stuff. It was actually pretty embarassing!

Didn't exactly advance the image of a STRONG, female Heroine!  :P

:lol:

I actually didn't know that. I never played the game, I've just been told it was very similar to Mario. I watched some gameplay, and while the core platforming looked pretty Mario her use of emotions is just hilarious and it really does carry this weird vibe to it because of it. I enjoy how she can just cry or get pissed whenver she wants. 

Colin Moriarity over at IGN has stated: Dragon's Crown is the Game the Vita (and PS3) Deserves. VERY positive impressions!

:)

For a game that many claim tries to sell on sex alone, the box is incredibly subdued!